tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post4760005999257211361..comments2024-01-24T06:02:54.086+00:00Comments on ProfHastings' blog: Autism and Evidence 5: 15 criticisms of ABA and some responsesProfHastingshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17961738273216388538noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-64391224347384282532023-04-26T10:36:36.921+01:002023-04-26T10:36:36.921+01:00Blooming Horizons provides high-quality ABA servic...Blooming Horizons provides high-quality <a href="https://bloominghorizons.com/" rel="nofollow">ABA services in New Jersey</a> for individuals with autism spectrum disorder. Our dedicated team tailors each program to meet the unique needs of each individual, helping them reach their full potential.Certified ABA Therapist New Jerseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00947510886801090479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-78922168681426084962022-11-27T07:21:03.730+00:002022-11-27T07:21:03.730+00:00We Confidently Claim To Be Abu Dhabi's Premier...We Confidently Claim To Be Abu Dhabi's Premier Allergy Clinic. Get Your <a rel="nofollow">Drug Allergy Test Abu Dhabi</a> Done From Us ASAP!<br /><br />snoasthmaandallergyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06357334222632472536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-5838997031821781042021-08-11T06:46:35.129+01:002021-08-11T06:46:35.129+01:00Hey,
It's really useful for needy. Thank you f...Hey,<br />It's really useful for needy. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, skills and knowledge about ABA. Keep sharing about <a href="https://nvpediatrictherapy.com/aba-therapy" rel="nofollow">ABA therapy</a><br /> for ASD children. Keep up the good work.<br />North Valley Pediatric Therapyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07899993682816350433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-20308301866955872352020-11-01T09:02:30.887+00:002020-11-01T09:02:30.887+00:00Nice blog, Thanks for sharing such a great informa...Nice blog, Thanks for sharing such a great information.<br /><b><a href="https://trainingwheelsaba.com/applied-behavior-analysis/" rel="nofollow">applied behavior analysis</a></b><br />Training Wheels ABAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16811876234987134687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-18663961636978962332017-06-30T12:31:19.748+01:002017-06-30T12:31:19.748+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Carol Tracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03933433276111700675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-43489555739371635672017-05-27T17:02:11.780+01:002017-05-27T17:02:11.780+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Madonaldohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05637720202380079008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-40191713312407724872017-03-09T21:48:31.989+00:002017-03-09T21:48:31.989+00:00What I worry about most is that this approach has ...What I worry about most is that this approach has always been used at the behest of those around the person. It is rarely championed by those on the spectrum themselves, in fact it is pretty much universally vilified by most self advocacy groups and activists. Although you and others such as Lavigna seem to operate from a more humane values base I am afraid that even the most casual research throws up example after example of practitioners bent on 'hammering square pegs into round holes' and grievously damaging those pegs in the process. In common with many leading proponents of ABA you seem completely oblivious to the huge contributions made to the understanding of autism by those on the spectrum themselves. It is strange that neither you nor Lavigna, nor any of your peers ever give a citation from an autistic author. Instead you rely on the conclusions of non autistic researchers and academics. If autism is a way of being', how can pure ' science' hope to open a window on the richness and diversity of perception of which behaviour is but the tip of the iceberg? Mysticyeasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973383828390109953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-3278746737036198772017-02-12T20:58:18.118+00:002017-02-12T20:58:18.118+00:00Actually you really suprised me here - I am sorry ...Actually you really suprised me here - I am sorry I realize now that I judged you... an wrongly so... on the basis of your example with the lights. I am sorry. JHO Consulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13283756140662913723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-43963748702441379252017-02-12T20:40:20.353+00:002017-02-12T20:40:20.353+00:00Oh and I do read quite a lot - so if you have litt...Oh and I do read quite a lot - so if you have litterature that you can recommend - on the issues that I try to gain a better understanding of - I would very much appreciate the information. Good books, or good articles on the ethical implications, and considerations, or on paradigmatic implications or controversies, and how these could be handled better etc... there must be such books and articles - but I continuously run into "how to's" - like that of Schramms (and I am not that impressed to be honest). JHO Consulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13283756140662913723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-32789169700120142442017-02-12T20:23:57.857+00:002017-02-12T20:23:57.857+00:00I cannot say how greatful I am for your replies - ...I cannot say how greatful I am for your replies - and I fully understand and appreciate when you cannot spend any more of your time answering. BUT... I go on - because I do have many questions and doubts... and I am actually very inquisitive - and critical (but that is my nature and that certainly is not specific for interest in ABA - that regards everything I come into contact with... ) ... And my experience trying to get a conversation about these things with people practicing ABA is exactly the one you write initially in your blog. And I am actually not that badly informed... but I am always told I only question these things because I do not understand ABA.... (blooddy right - other wise I wouldn't ask would I??? - well) - so I am using the opportunity as I have just met it. And your kindness is very unique - and very very appreciated! <br /><br />... So... ok.. I get that you can only present it as you see it - it is a problem with an approach - that it does not have a clearly defined - "this it definately IS and this it definately is NOT"... as I see it. If you take an approach as AI (appreciative... I... ) then you would have some very clearcut answers as to what is and what it isn't - and if someone did ... say ... something in their practice - you would be able to judge quite easily - specfically on the basis of videomaterial aso if what the do is actually appreciative... I mean it isn't that difficult.<br /><br />I don't really understand why ABA is so different. Maybe you can help me. I understand that there are poor practitioners everywhere - and I am not talking about that... I mean - methods - goals - values- etc... those must be clearly defined in an approach - otherwise ... how can it be an approach? Am I completely misunderstanding... ?<br /><br />And... back to the punishment thing... if "you" do have a functional understanding of punishment, and actually appreciate that things can act as punishers, that society does not usually perceive like that - can you then see my point about absence of enforcement - being perceived as punishment? and why that could be a point of concern? <br />JHO Consulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13283756140662913723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-16203249597104274512017-02-12T20:09:32.718+00:002017-02-12T20:09:32.718+00:00I completely agree - poor practice is poor practic...I completely agree - poor practice is poor practice - and that does belong to one specific "venue" but to us all - unfortunately... - but rather naturally.<br /><br />It pleases me to read that you differenciate between what is best "changed" where... do you integrate other practices into your work - I mean ... in my practice when designing a plan of treatment for a family - I would typically integrate methods from differing approaches - to reach the set "goals" with the intervention. <br /><br />Do you also integrate like that?<br /><br />And there is the well known objection with the many hours an approach/science as ABA recommends - how many hours would you recommend... and is it al sceduelled rehearsal - or what is it - is it everything and every minute the child spends being objectified as a "learning experience" measured and planned in minute detail... every "enforcement" (everything the child prefers to play with/spend time doing) being controlled by "treating" surroundings? Or ... what is it like... how many hours planned - how many not planned etc. ? Could you give an impression of this? JHO Consulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13283756140662913723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-38479705413407500022017-02-12T18:34:52.109+00:002017-02-12T18:34:52.109+00:00It isn't how I would describe what any ABA bas...It isn't how I would describe what any ABA based intervention should be about but I do recognise that others use descriptions I don't agree with.<br /><br />I did only claim that those from a good ABA training actually clearly understand what punishment is and are I would argue are uniquely placed to help others see when punishment is happening. This is because they have a functional understanding as punishment. The point is that for an individual some things will act as punishers that society doesn't usually think of in this way.<br /><br />I am presenting ABA as I see and understand it not representing how other people like those you mention present it. I don't have to agree with them! Personally I would not be thinking or talking about getting a child to comply.<br /><br />It seems to me we might agree on a lot of things. People with autism, families and society need to define what they want to achieve or do. ABA practitioners can then help achieve that. It is not for ABA to say how people should behave.ProfHastingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17961738273216388538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-79864168282964561172017-02-12T18:18:43.760+00:002017-02-12T18:18:43.760+00:00Exactly - but when I learn about the practice of A...Exactly - but when I learn about the practice of ABA - behavior of refusal, denial, etc is behavior that is worked to extinction... so which "clear signs" do you more particularly look for? As I do not find the described anywhere in your litteratur - in videos etc... how do you acknowledge it - and who decides? <br /><br />In my home country (denmark) there is both legal age of consent - regarding treatment - and there is ethical concerns regarding consent - which do not match that of the legal system. This means we differenciate between ethics and legal issues. This would mostly fall into the ethical considerations. <br /><br />And I do not find those ethical discussions regarding issues like this - not in the litterature - could you give me some hints as to where I could read further op on this? JHO Consulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13283756140662913723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-59310274116774703982017-02-12T18:02:25.217+00:002017-02-12T18:02:25.217+00:00Regarding the issue of compliance - again it is no...Regarding the issue of compliance - again it is not my opinion or presentation of ABA - but that of highly regarded practitioners I present, the coin "compliance" is certainly not one I have invented... Just today I overheard this as a wanted result in the videos of Robert Schramm - MA BCAB... (but this is certainly not the only place in the contextual reference of ABA that this is wanted) - other interesting phrases he shared in the video (accessible on youtube - if you want a link say so) - another good one is the aim of absolute comprehensive control (of the childs acces to ANYTHING he might want - or need - since we cannot say on the basis of radical behaviorism).<br /><br />Oh and no - it is not at piece of science - I get that - but claiming that ABA practitioners are better educated than other practitioners is quite an extraordinary claim to make, even if it is not in a scientific piece. In my opinion that is. JHO Consulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13283756140662913723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-44861332107118248742017-02-12T17:46:04.386+00:002017-02-12T17:46:04.386+00:00Hi - thank you for answering - and so swiftly - ma...Hi - thank you for answering - and so swiftly - maybe like me - you should be working right now?<br /><br />The usual way of showing and giving parental love was an example of something a child would typically enjoy... but also something which only few children with autism enjoy. Therefore what you do in ABA, is you take the things that they DO enjoy and (ab)use them to get the child to comply. The implication of the example being, that for at child very very connected to finding it soothing to hav access to his favorite toys, to take it away and abuse is to make the child comply is actually establishing af trade off. Exactly the one in my example. <br /><br />No it is certainly not true - just because people offer critical comments or present ABA in certain ways... but ABAs fond of litteratur - your above mentioned references - or say Schramms videos on youtube would not be "people offering critical comments" - would it? <br /><br />I am not making unbased critical comments and I do not present ABA in "certain ways" ... I simply question the way you, Lovaas, Schramm - aso yourselves present it... <br /><br />I do not present it - I question it. JHO Consulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13283756140662913723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-4154882583705037032017-02-12T17:31:50.525+00:002017-02-12T17:31:50.525+00:00I agree with your points. Actually, ABA is all abo...I agree with your points. Actually, ABA is all about the environment and the social context - at it is usally the environment or what other people do (i.e., how they behave towards people with autism) that is the target for change. Sometimes, this means changing other people, and sometimes this means giving the person with autism the skills to change other people (e.g., by helping them communicate clearly to others about their experiences and needs). This is very much the whole point - ABA is not about changing the person/taking away their autism in my view.<br /><br />Poor practice is poor practice - and there are poor ABA practitioners, but there are also poor practitioners working from other perspectives. Poor practice is not one and the same thing as ABA. Some medical/biological interventions for example have no evidence and physically damage children but this does not mean that all biologically-informed interventions are bad.ProfHastingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17961738273216388538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-45012923113583735662017-02-12T17:26:58.005+00:002017-02-12T17:26:58.005+00:00Consent is legally defined in the country/context ...Consent is legally defined in the country/context in which you are working and ABA practitioners are required in their codes of practice to work to those requirements. In addition, always ABA practitioners must be seeking information about proecedures that they are working with from children and their families - at whatever age and whether or not they are able to speak clearly for themselves (i.e., you have to look for clear signs in their behaviour if children cannot speak for themselves otherwise).ProfHastingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17961738273216388538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-35253593604633227622017-02-12T17:24:21.040+00:002017-02-12T17:24:21.040+00:00thank you for your questions. First, no-one should...thank you for your questions. First, no-one should be suggesting making parental love contingent on desried behaviour as you use as a potential example. Second, as I try to point out, any outcomes worked towards must be those identified by the people involved. ABA doesn't value any one thing above another.<br /><br />As for unsubstantiated claims, this is not a scientific piece with references but a blog indicating my views. The object of ABA is not about getting a child to comply.<br /><br />Just because some folks offer critical comments or present ABA in certain ways also does not make their points true...ProfHastingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17961738273216388538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-89697184703234888902017-02-12T17:23:04.894+00:002017-02-12T17:23:04.894+00:00ups sorry about the errors I am Danish and sometim...ups sorry about the errors I am Danish and sometimes jump into that when typing... it just happens (conditioning I guess ;-)) Sorry though - hope it's not too disrupting to read! <br />JHO Consulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13283756140662913723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-63966747219733316122017-02-12T17:09:13.940+00:002017-02-12T17:09:13.940+00:00# 3 Oh - and then we move on to the next issue. Th...<br /># 3 Oh - and then we move on to the next issue. There is no doubt about the need of a highly individualized treatment in autism. Everyone agrees upon that point. So far so good. But then there is the question of what should be solved by the individual and what might actually better be changed in the surroundings... Training to stay in very bright surroundings - as you yourself mentioned in your writing ... hmmm very good - do you also train the blind to see? The deaf to hear? or the lame to walk?<br /><br />The responsible practitioner would in such a case mostly educate the "patient" on the matter of perceptual differences in the autistic person. And on the matter, that ignoring this, at training to endure in being overstimulated would most likely lead to longterm unwanted results... amongst others typically things as anxiety issues, stress, in some even PTSD, in some a complete shutdown of sensory related impulses, in some cases also an even hightened alertnes over time - and the stress related further complication of things as allergies, MCS, and other ofte stress provoked complications related to prolonged or enhanced exposure. <br /><br />Haven't you ever considered simply teaching them having breaks? using toned lenses/glasses? Wearing af hat - al very simple and ordinary and helpful means of escaping bright lights. And there are many other examples of simple little things that can help immensely - but obviously also require the cooperation of the community. Because if you have different needs, you have to be able to explain this to the people who may react to it. But instead of teaching a person to be a good version of him or herself, you as a practitioner find it ethically sound to teach them to be copies of their surroundings? I find that challenging to say the least! Individualized treatment is a must, but nok all the solutions are in changing the individual - sometimes it is in both the individual and the community. In ABA it is all in changing the person - making them learn to endure - to suffer and cope - because if you can't se it - it isn't there? If you cannot visually confirm a perceptual sensory handicap - then you do not "understand" it? recognize it? or what is the reason you would have that kind of thinking...? I mean - you really seem to think that basic conditions and circumstances in autism simply go away - in training... that is simply ... so wrong. Sorry - but it really is. That is on the verge of ignorance. <br /><br />Of course anyone has to be able to endure... but life should be lived - not endured. If you have to do something a lot of the time in your work - where you use endurance - chances are you will as described above suffer the consequences on the long haul... <br /><br />I have other questions and problematic issues regarding ABA, but these were some, and I - as described - do not think you adressed them above - at least not sufficiently. <br />thanks - I look foreward to a reply.<br /><br />Regards Rikke JHO Consulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13283756140662913723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-49721642729442874322017-02-12T17:08:51.267+00:002017-02-12T17:08:51.267+00:00# 2 And then there is the question of informed con...# 2 And then there is the question of informed consent. At what age should children be considered involved in choosing? When? At which level of maturity? Is this considered in the ABA litteratur? I have looked for it - the whole matter of "consent" and I have found nothing on it (amongst critics yes - but that is of little interest to me - I would rather know how ABA practitioners relate to that issue - how they operationalize it - in actual practice - everyday... ). <br /><br />How is the right of every person to refuse to do something conceptualized in ABA? As I see it it it is coined "non-compliant behavior" and is worked on to extinction. <br /><br />Have you by the way ever considered the fact that when you read about ABA, og research on ABA, or watch ABA instruction videos, or engage in conversation with ABA practitioners, that these words are ofte spoken: "control", "compliance", "extinction", "demand", "restrict", "reinforce", "attention", "motivational" (not "motivate" or motivated - but "motivational"), "void of" (reinforcement - escapes etc etc) ... and have you ever considered what terms like these - when relating to educating acutally suggests of the approach and the people concerned with it.<br />JHO Consulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13283756140662913723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-35715205990232426762017-02-12T17:07:54.849+00:002017-02-12T17:07:54.849+00:00#1 I may not have read this properly or understood...#1 I may not have read this properly or understood it properly, but fail to se discussion of some of the most important issues in this text. <br /><br />And I see a lot of claims - not substantiated. for instance you simply claim: "ABA practitioners are also trained to a much higher level than other practitioners to recognize and understand punishment..."... now that is simply a claim. Not remotely a truth or anything like that... It is simply your opinion. And one which you obviously are allowed to have. None the less it is a mere opinion.<br /><br />And while we're on the matter of punishment, or "aversives" as this is coined inside the practice of ABA... An aversive, does not simply stop being such, just because ABA practitioners decide it is not one. To take possession of a childs wants, as a means to making the child comply, and only give the child acces to his wants, can very well be percieved as punishment/aversive. <br /><br />Let us take an example. Child craves mothers love. Now mother is tired of childs behavior, which she on a completely normative level decides to be "undesired behavior" or let us say for fun: "disruptive behavior" - she now decides she will only give love to her child when child is compliant according to mothers normative concept og non-disruptive behavior. <br /><br />This kind of treatment would in most modern educated cultures be seen as on the verge of abuse, or neglect, and certainly as very ill informed. You do not emotionally blackmail a child to achieve what you want from it, do you? Would you under normal circumstances consider this a healthy and well thought way to bring up a child... To bring that kind of trade off into a relation build on trust and reciprocity? <br /><br />But when you have a particularly vulnerable child, say a child with autism - or ADHD, suddenly a tradeoff of this kind is not abusive, it is not neglect, and not ill informed, or even unconsidered - now it is "treatment"? <br /><br />What you think of at "reinforcement" may very well be considered abusive if suddenly it is completely denied beyond the realm of complete compliant behavior. <br /><br />Another problem with ABA, is its normative component. All treatments are basically normative, culturally, contextually etc - nothing weird or strange about that. But it IS very strange that ABA does not in its litteratur consider the implications of this. That means that all though the effects are somewhat precisely measured - and are evident (even if not as much as is often claimed it is nonetheless probably the most evidence based practice) - the whole basis for ABA is not tested at all. It is simply a subjective, kontextual, normatively based approach, which means that beyond discussing its impact - it is clearly a normative choice whether one likes the approach or not. That is not beyond "opinion" as ABAs basis - radical behaviorism - is not beyond opinion. You can choose it or not choose it. Choice at this point is not a question of "any given measurable effect" but of what one actually can relate to. And another problem with the whole normative basis for ABA obviously is: how do you ensure that issues dealt with in the individually planned treatments are actually healthy - wanted - needed and not simply conforming a person to compliance? How can a behavior be deemed problematic/not problematic, healthy/unhealthy, disruptive/wanted - without even investigating the motives of the behavior beyond the categories of "negative reinforcement", "positive reinforcement", or "automated reinforcement"... <br /><br />JHO Consulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13283756140662913723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-47880889467110522612017-01-05T19:56:58.891+00:002017-01-05T19:56:58.891+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.La Lobahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00803111291583898884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-55384601308341499402016-12-28T14:12:26.262+00:002016-12-28T14:12:26.262+00:00My problem with ABA is that I have been constantly...My problem with ABA is that I have been constantly told that there is so much scientific evidence supporting its use. However, when I ask to be shown the evidence to support the use of ABA I am presented with a bunch of case studies and small N types of studies that can not be generalized. I even got one researcher admit that they hide cases where ABA has not been shown to work. What the research I am reading is telling me is that ABA can work in some cases but it does not tell me when it is not successful. I beleive it is just as important to publish studies on cases where ABA is not successful. One question I have is for every study published that shows that ABA is successful how many studies that failed to show its success were not published? In order for me to make the best decision for my child I need all of the evidence both positive and negative and not just the information that researchers choose for me to see that supports their agenda. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8945427651211387206.post-22726677826630202742015-10-14T02:22:51.995+01:002015-10-14T02:22:51.995+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Donnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179584055920993822noreply@blogger.com